A retraction

As a general rule, I try not to be an idiot. I like to think that for the most part, I'm not. However, as are all, I'm sometimes susceptable to moments of idiocy. As a general rule, I try acknowledge them when I become aware of them.

First, I fully support the legal protection of a woman's right to choose. I want there to be no question about that.

I posited below that the laws governing abortion were at their very foundation poorly constructed. I believe that to be true.

I suggested that the definition of life as dictated by Roe V Wade is ill-founded. I still hold to that as well.

Then I made another suggestion, without research, based on an understanding that I now know to be false. I was laboring under the delusion that the heartbeat began much later than it actually does. Fact-checking was a mere click away, and I didn't carry it out.

That was an idiotic thing to do. I apologize for it.

What I intended to do with the post below was to raise some concerns I had with abortions as they are currently practiced. Given the nature of the issue, I should have put more thought behind this.

I'm greatly troubled by the idea of an abortion carried out on a fetus that can feel it happening. I believe there can and should be a way to prevent this from happening whenever feasible without undermining a woman's right to choose. I don't know how. I shouldn't have gone beyond my knowledge base, as by so doing I ran the risk of causing offense, and furthermore thoroughly weakened my arguement and my credibility.

I'm not going to edit the post below, or delete it. I want the record to reflect the truth, and to cover up a stumble like that would be dishonest. I'm going to respond to the comments, then close the thread. any comments you would have left there I would ask you to leave here.

I fucked up.

I'm sorry


  1. No worries! Don't beat yourself up over it! We know you are not making any declarations and that should a fact present itself to refute your argument you are open to learning and hearing the new info... which you have done in a very noble manner I must add.

    Yes, the heart beats very soon after conception and most women do not find out they are pregnant about a month after conception. I took about 2 pregnancy tests when I was late and not until after a month into the pregnancy did it come out positive. Tends to be the norm.

    It is a very messy situation and for me the bottomline is this... yes there are many irresonsible idiots out there who use abortion as a method of contraception and very irresponsibly on many levels but that should not infringe on a woman's choice and freedom.

    Abortion itself is a horrible, horrible thing. But I believe it to be a necessary evil. I did not want to do it in the end with my accidental pregnancy and kept my baby. I don't ever want to be in such a position again but my reality is that after 2 kids, if ever I become pregnant again, I cannot have a 3rd.

    I am as careful as can be to not ever be in that situation but if ever I am I want to be free to choose.

    It is a hard act, it is very hard when deciding where and when to draw the line... but I believe it to be a necessary evil where the necessity far outweighs the lack thereof...

  2. And thank you so much for the plug! I am humbled!

  3. Hey you... you are entitled to your own opinion on things. I didn't take offense to anything you said. I'm not here to change your mind on anything... I was just giving my opinion.

    You are still A-Okay in my book! ;)


  4. As Shayna stated above. No idiot you Wombat.

    You certainly have the right to your opinion and if you can back your opinion with facts that justify it so much the better. So few people even know why they have the opinions they have. I can honestly see your concern. You are a very human person and it is obviously that you have thought some about this.
    Everyone has the right to their opinion.

    I feel I have the right to do as I please anytime I want with my life and my body. I can't help feeling that way but I can certainly see where you are coming from.
    I doubt that most women when faced with an abortion as an alternative have an easy time making that decision.
    I do not feel it should be used as a form of birth control and do not think it is something to take lightly. I doubt most women take it lightly.
    The uneducated need to be educated until that time the inability to get abortions for those that are under educated and poor is only going to exacerbate the problem.

    At the same time the pain babies feel at circumcison is far worse than anything we can imagine at least that is what I read and although they don't remember it consciously it is practiced everyday.

  5. Miz B: Thank you. I don't know any other way to go about this. I also believe that abortion is a necessary evil. I support a woman's right to choose. I also support anything that renders such a choice unnecessary. If there is a viable, feasible
    alternative that doesn't interfere with personal autonomy, I support that as well.

    I don't support those who would turn a blind eye to the inherent nature of the practice, as failing to do so has no palpable effect whatsoever on anything.

    The plug was well-deserved.

    Shayna: And you didn't present any opinion that I disagree with. And I didn't look to change your opinion either. Its just that I found it curious that the matter is hardly raised, and while at the end of the day I've drawn no conclusions, I have to look myself in the mirror in the morning.
    I wish the whole world knew you, so I could use "Pat Desmond: A-OK in Shayna's book" and everyone would love me.

    Alice: I agree that you have the right to do what you will with your life and your body. Everyone does. I just think that there may be a point at which there is another life in question.

    That being said, upon further reflection, now isn't the time for that discussion. Not in any forum of high visibility at least. There's a reason I didn't post this on BIO, or in any comment thread. This was from its inception a point I was raising to an audience almost entirly comprised of people whom I consider friends.

    Now that the legal battle is imminent, to engage in an internal debate runs the risk of empowering the other side. And while normally that's a position I loathe (and I do even as I'm taking it), we are engaged in a war that in this case actually does concern freedom for Americans, and those fighting it can hear the voices that ring out on both sides. What I said will not help anyone, because those who oppose a woman's right to choose are not willing to compromise.

    Hopefully, this will be the topic of open debate once the right to personal autonomy is secured. For now, it's in the hands of doctors to honor their oaths and do no harm, and its it the hands of women to use their own better judgement. The stakes are just too high and the potential consequences too dire.

    As for circumcision, the occasion has not yet arisen for me to have a context to voice exactly how much I abhor it. I believe it to be unethical, a violation of the Hippocratic Oath, and de facto child abuse. The purported benefeits have for the most part been refuted, and there is evidence to support a theory that it causes lasting psychological damage, as well as a lower threshold for pain. I have no stomach for it, and if I ever have a son, there is no question as to what I'd say in the matter.

  6. Back in San Francisco we discussed this issue, that of circumcision that is, in my human sexuality class. Men who had had it done as adults came in and spoke of their experience. If I remember correctly, the foreskin had about 4000 nerve endings and when taken away deadens the feeling quite a bit sexually. A penis without the foresking becomes a calloused, roughen organ.

    I agree with you. I find it monstrous. I have a son and the whole pregnancy I remember being baffled by the practice. If foreskin is programmed into him genetically, if my body is going to all the trouble of making it for him, there is no way anyone will take it away from him!

    At first my husband wanted it done, but after he was born and my grabbing my son and yelling no way and when he met our son, it was a definite NO!

    He is at an age now where he is discovering his body and talking about it and I love (and this may sound weird) his innocent and childish love of his penis (believe me! little boys are quite into their penises and mine is very proud of his!) and his body and I love it even more that he got to keep his foreskin!

    The clitoral hood is to the clitoris what the foreskin is to the penis and were one to try to remove that from women there would be a big stink about it so it is riiculous that it is such an accepted practice with mails...

    As for it hurting, it hurts like a bitch and the injections they have availabel to somewhat numb the pain does not do much on that end...

    Yep, I researched this and armed myself with the facts because you would NOT believe the reaction I have gotten for NOT circumcising my son!

  7. Sorry about the typos! Very early here and I am still dizzy...

  8. Miz B: Glad to hear that you agree.

    Don't really understand how anyone can look at the facts and favor circumcision. The most absurd arguement I've heard is that a desensitized penis fosters greater endurance. Hardly worth the trauma if you ask me